I'm far too tied up in this Cambodia thing to get way into other issues, but I'm beginning to wonder why it's such a big deal that the swiftvets know some people Bush knows but that this sort of connection doesn't come up for moveon.org or any other "3rd party" buying ads...

http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com/

The site sucks, but the URL about sums up how I feel about our presidential options.

HAHAHAHAHA!!! Ahhh, you crazy republicans.

You do realize there's a difference between saying, "yes, in the time period of the first four years of my presidency, I would like to change the deployment of troops all over the world, including Korea" and pulling them out immediately, as Bush is planning. Kerry isn't flip-flopping, silly. He said, and you quoted, that IF diplomacy worked, that he would like to be able to pull them out. What Diplomacy has Bush done?

In other words:

What Kerry wants - Diplomacy, followed by the eventual withdrawal of troops over time.
What Kerry is criticizing - No diplomacy; haphazard yanking of troops immediately. "Concise plan" is right!

"Make up your mind!" But he HAS made up his mind! Why can't you open your eyes and see that there's a difference between what he said he would do, and what he's criticizing Bush for doing?

No diplomacy; haphazard yanking of troops immediately. "Concise plan" is right!

Oh you whacko liberals...

No diplomacy? The administration has been in talks with North Korea since '02 when Kim Jong Il started yammering about his nuclear program. US and its European and Asian allies have engaged them in talks both on military and economic matters.

Haphazard yanking of troops immediately? No, I dont think this is something thats going into effect tomorrow, nor next week, nor next month, nor within the year. He just announced going forward with plans, but no specific time has been determined because they are still in talks with some of the countries most affected (South Korea and Germany).

Concise plan? Um, considering that it was developed at the Pentagon, by Pentagon staff and given the Pentagon's seal of approval, I'd say it was a plan developed not in the best interests of Bush, but in the best interest of our national security, our military and our country.

No, Kerry hasn't made up his mind. He's just being fashionable, just like he is on every subject. His complaints result less from some extraordinary re-evaluation of the merits of the issue than the fact that he will search for any pretext to disagree with Mr. Bush.

They've already started apparently.

Is it ignorant to actually read what people are saying? Interesting.

It's your words put into context. Good job, there.

Let me explain.

DY: Kerry chastizes Bush for doing X, although he said he'd do the same thing in another interview!
Me: If you actually read what he said, he didn't say he'd do the same thing.
You: Get ready for ignorant comments!
DY: They've already started.

I take that to mean that you guys are implying that it is ignorant to suggest that someone read what is actually being said. I guess that IS par for the GOP though. "You want me to READ??? Now that's just ignorant." @@

I really can't believe I have to explain this. If it turns out you're just playing dumb, damn you for fooling me.

Then, as I said, damn you for fooling me.

Corey,
My Dad was drafted into Vietnam. He was a hippie who wore a peace pin in his wedding photos. When it was his turn to go, he went. He didn't hide be hind his wife's uncle's conciderable Union power to get defered. He went. When fireworks go off, he winces. I think we have an administration that loves to go to war because none of them have gone. Like boys playing guns. Bush, Chaney, Ashcroft, all defered. I have more respect for Kerry because he went to war. I have respect for him because he realized the war was wrong & spoke out against it. Does he "waffle"? Maybe... but how many times in our lives have we thought one way so steadfast, but something caused us pause to think & maybe change the way we thought about the subject. I personally find the attacks on Kerry's war record disgusting. The Bush camp did this before in the last elections primarys against Senator McCain. As I said before, disgusting. I don't know if Kerry is the answer, but it a better alternative than what's in office now, in my view.

In reading your posts, it seems to me that we have entirely different political views, but I still love ya, man.

Republicans aren't the ones who keep bringing up Kerry's war record...its Kerry doing it. He just won't stop making it seemingly the central issue. And it only escalated to attacks against his records after the dems made an issue out of Bush's record of service in the National Guard.

You know whats digusting, is that democrats are trying to silence swiftboat vets who want the true story to come out. You have these guys that served their country, who come home to find out that Kerry is going before Senate commities, telling of atrocities that they didnt commit...and they are hauled into testify and humiliated. They've had to live with this negativity against them for decades. And now that the issue is brought to the forefront and someone is willing to listen to their side of the story and learn the truth of what really happened, you have the democrats putting pressure against the publishers of their book, and against media outlets where they have airtime purchased, in order to silence them.

I admire your father for serving without protest. But I have no admiration for Kerry who when he came back, publicly damned those still serving, mocked his service and his countrymen and gave comfort to the enemy.

Honestly, I wish we _would_ get off the subject of Vietnam and get to the issues. I want discussions on Kerry's voting records in the Senate. I want debates on the big issues of economy, healthcare and foreign policy. Not back and forth bickering over Vietnam and the National Guard.

Republicans aren't the ones who keep bringing up Kerry's war record

yesterday on Rush Limbaugh for a 1/2 hour they discussed his war efforts, the rights to his medals as well as stating that he staged a film of himself with an 8mm camera to look like a hero.

swiftboat vets

lol every single one out of all the individuals who served with Kerry and was apart of that situation, supports Kerry. His commanding officer is now however retracting his praise for Kerry's action stating now he didnt have all the facts... 30 years later he changes his mind. Every sitatuion in every war is different. It is no mans place to suggest that someone did or did not do the right thing at the time of action. What needs to be called into question is how Bush, Cheney and the rest of the administration managed to avoid drafts, calls of duty and completion of any service. The fact that these people support someone who served nothing to this country and attacks a man who saved lives by putting his own in harms way... frightens me. My father came back from war and was disgusted. Still to this day he can not even speak about what he saw. My family has alot of vietnam vets, some of which do not even like to go over why they earned purple hearts and stars. The fact that Kerry has to publicly review it in front of the entire nation and defend it is disgusting and must be incredibley hard for him. Not too many people can live and talk about the fact that they were in a swamp in a foreign country with bullets from ak47's flying all around them from both sides of the water way. He did this not only once, but routinely. I think the man deserves recognition for that alone.

The Era during vietnam was a much different time than now politically. People did not know how to distinguish a soldier between being a baby killer and patriotic. Soldiers that trusted their government to make the right decision were treated horribly and with disrespect. We have advanced now as a society to be able to say "I support my troops and patriots but I do not support the Iraq war". It was very difficult to make that distinguishment during Vietnam.

I think this subject is a very important valid subject and should be reviewed. We are not going to solve healthcare, economy and foreign policy during a campaign. I want to know if the man running, will be capable of potentially solving those problems. "bickering over Vietnam" you say? Its more than that. We are calling Kerry's character in question. We are calling Bush's character into question.. two VERY important topics. This whispering campaign has been a republican practice for decades. They did this to McCain and the Georgia guy I cant remember his name. The big problem is that Bush calls his own party members into question.

Kerry's voting record you want? Sure.. If you are going to reivew the voting record you should review the book/law that was proposed with it. For example, voting on whether or not every citizen receives healthcare is important right? But Kerry votes no. We need to look at why. Why did he choose no.. did it mean that you would receive medical attention from med students only? Did it mean that you were limited to only 200.00 a month in health care costs? Did it mean that our taxes would have to go up 10%? There could be six million and 1 reasons why he voted yes or no. Appointing a member of congress gives them the trust to vote properly to protect us. If you wish to review your trust in your congressman, be sure to look at why.

Out of all the debates over both canidates war efforts.. Very little evidence is provided from the republicans as well as the swiftboat party. Not good since they are the majority leading in accusations.

The Bush FamilyMafia has done far worse things than whatever situation you are calling into question concerning Kerry's war effort. His relationship with the Saudi's, His families involvment with the Nazi's and with German Steele used for the nazi war machine. I mean come on, Cheneys entire envolvement with Haliburton. How about the cleanup effort after 9/11? There are still parts of manhattan that are just saturated with pollutants where no cleanup effort has completed and in some parts completely haulted.

"I admire your father for serving without protest. But I have no admiration for Kerry who when he came back, publicly damned those still serving, mocked his service and his countrymen and gave comfort to the enemy."
I haven't seen any of this in things I have read about Kerry, except from a right point of view. That's not to say it isn't true, I just don't know. I try to keep myself well informed & politically to the center. I want what's best for all the people in the country, from my point of view. I personally think that our political system is way beyond fucked. The two parties act like children & the will of the people is hardly ever served...unless you can by it. We can go on & on about everything with who said what, where & when. I would like the facts laid out for all the people to see, without all the bullshit from the talking heads on both sides.

"Honestly, I wish we _would_ get off the subject of Vietnam and get to the issues. I want discussions on Kerry's voting records in the Senate. I want debates on the big issues of economy, healthcare and foreign policy. Not back and forth bickering over Vietnam and the National Guard."
I would like to have more discussions of both candidates records, but the war is a very big deal for me. Bush has never had a bullet wizz past his head, never saw a brother fall before him or blow up next to him. He knows nothing of the horrors of war, which makes it easy for him to go to war. Afganistan was justified, Iraq was not. He is a boy playing war. I have never thought he had the American people's best interests at heart, just the American people like him. Bush's policies for the economy, healthcare, & foreign policy have been lackluster at best. As I said before, Kerry my not be the answer, but it's better than what's there now.

I just fear that those people who vote in Kerry just because he's not Bush are not going to be any better off.

that icon ownz lol

I personally think that our political system is way beyond fucked.

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those others that have been tried from time to time. ~Winston Churchill

Every government is a parliament of whores. The trouble is, in a democracy, the whores are us. ~P.J. O'Rourke

A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. ~Barry Goldwater